Matt breaks down the concept of "collaboration drag"—one of the biggest threats to marketing agility—and offers a proven maturity model to help CMOs and revenue teams identify friction, align cross-functional efforts, and improve execution speed without sacrificing quality.

We cover why this issue has risen to the top of Gartner’s CMO priorities list, how AI agents are becoming part of the org chart, and what operational discipline looks like when you’re serious about pipeline performance.

Whether you’re rethinking GTM strategy, introducing AI into your workflows, or simply tired of too many meetings, this episode delivers frameworks and clarity you can act on today.

Podcast transcript

Kerry Curran (00:02.144)
Welcome, Matt. Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Matt Heinz (00:07.362)
Yeah, thank you, Kerry. My name is Matt Heinz, founder and president of Heinz Marketing. For over 16 years, we’ve helped companies with long, complex sales processes create more predictable pipelines. Too often, companies in that environment rely on random acts of marketing and experience pipeline lumpiness. So we focus on strategy, process, and playbooks—helping sales, marketing, and customer success teams work more closely together to build predictable, repeatable, and scalable pipelines.

Kerry Curran (00:37.066)
Excellent. Thank you, Matt. I know you spend a lot of time talking with CMOs and other executives. What common challenges are you seeing brands struggle with most right now?

Matt Heinz (00:53.806)
Yeah, there’s a lot—the list is long. But the one that comes to mind first is something called collaboration drag. Gartner listed fighting collaboration drag as a top-three CMO priority in 2024, and by 2025, they named it the number one thing CMOs should address. A simple way to understand what I mean is to ask this question:

Matt Heinz (01:23.022)
On average, how many meetings does it take your company to produce a webinar? When I ask that in a room full of marketers, the audible groans are loud. It’s too many meetings, too much back and forth. Even if you run webinars all the time, it feels like you’re reinventing the process every single time. That’s collaboration drag.

Matt Heinz (01:52.812)
Now think about today’s go-to-market motions—multiple channels, steps, buying committee members. We’re asking sales and marketing to work more closely together. We’re asking humans and AI agents to collaborate. It’s a mess. As a result, projects get delayed, agility disappears, and people burn out from inefficient systems.

Matt Heinz (02:22.298)
And as complexity grows—which it will—this issue only becomes more urgent. That’s why Gartner’s focused on it. Solving collaboration drag helps CMOs truly do more with less, which is the new anthem from boards and investors.

Kerry Curran (02:38.688)
Yeah, especially now. Marketers are feeling that pinch—tighter budgets, fewer resources, layoffs—but the pressure to hit business goals hasn’t eased. How do you help your clients identify and close those gaps?

Matt Heinz (02:59.566)
If you have a sales process or buying journey that spans 6, 9, or 12+ months, you're likely running complex plays already. That’s one signal. Another is team size—once you have 15+ marketers, collaboration drag is already setting in. At 20 to 25, the pain is visceral.

We created a Collaboration Drag Diagnostic with four key areas of internal go-to-market orchestration. It’s a maturity model. You look at “good, better, best” descriptions and choose where your team lands. And be honest—CMOs often think they’re better than the team thinks they are. It’s not uncommon for CMOs to say, “We’re good,” and their team replies, “We’re drowning.”

Matt Heinz (03:56.566)
It’s just a one-page tool, but it surfaces the pain quickly. That clarity is step one before you unlock agility, faster execution, and happier employees.

Kerry Curran (04:21.248)
So walk us through those four areas of maturity.

Matt Heinz (04:27.468)
Sure.

1. Collaboration & Communication: What channels are used? What meetings happen? What rhythms do teams follow? Just documenting those gives you a baseline to optimize.
   
   
2. Roles & Processes: Who’s doing what? Without clarity, politics creep in. You get too many people involved just to be involved. RACI or DACI frameworks are great tools here.
   
   
3. Project Management Tools: What tech are you using to manage the work? Buying another tool like Asana or Monday.com won’t help unless your process is baked into it.
   
   
4. Strategy to Execution Motion: How do you turn ideas into outputs? How do you stay agile without blowing up the system every time something new comes along?
   
   

Kerry Curran (05:07.776)
And swim lanes come into play there too, right?

Matt Heinz (05:12.568)
Absolutely. When people know their swim lanes, you have fewer people in meetings, faster decisions, and clearer ownership. Most people don’t want more meetings—they’ll thank you for taking things off their plate.

Kerry Curran (05:44.354)
Yes—fewer meetings and less late-night scrambling. So after the assessment, how do you help teams implement these changes?

Matt Heinz (08:50.798)
We document the current workflows—which are often tribal knowledge—and then build out optimized versions. That includes roles, success metrics, planning tools, and how to use project management software.

Once that’s done, we build a taxonomy: definitions, responsibilities, who's involved, etc. It becomes a living, breathing document. The real magic happens when we do hands-on coaching. We’ll take something like a webinar and walk the team through execution using the new system.

Because you can’t just hand people a playbook and hope they follow it—you have to help them adopt and refine it in their own context.

Kerry Curran (11:35.018)
And how do you help with resistance? People clinging to “the way we’ve always done it”?

Matt Heinz (11:48.482)
Start with the why: If everything feels like a fire drill, something’s broken. People are sick of scrambling. They want structure, not chaos.

And I’ll be honest—this process adds work upfront. You still have to keep the plane flying while building a better engine. But if you don’t make time for this, things will never improve. One CMO just told me their team’s job satisfaction rose 60% after going through this. They’re doing more with less and they’re happier.

Kerry Curran (13:48.842)
That’s huge. Let’s talk AI. How are you incorporating it into these workflows?

Matt Heinz (14:04.012)
A year ago, AI was just a tool for copywriting. Now, companies are building AI agents into org charts. Instead of org charts, think accountability charts—what tasks can AI own? It’s part of the orchestration.

From lead management to content development, AI agents are being embedded across the stack. But they’re not free. One client spends $5K/month, which replaces the need to hire multiple team members.

Kerry Curran (16:01.536)
Is that built in-house or third-party?

Matt Heinz (16:13.102)
It’s a mix. Some are custom-built. Others are part of existing systems. For example, Salesforce’s Agent Force is already there—if you’re not using it, you’re missing out.

Kerry Curran (16:44.864)
So how should someone get started?

Matt Heinz (16:57.25)
Start with the Collaboration Drag Audit—it’s free on our website. You can do it yourself or we can guide you through it. It’ll help you assess your maturity and spark internal conversations around what's broken.

Kerry Curran (17:39.022)
Any quick questions people can ask their teams?

Matt Heinz (17:39.022)
Yep:

• How many meetings does it take to launch a webinar?
  
  
• Are we using our project management tools effectively?
  
  
• How many of your meetings are truly useful or could be async?
  
  
• Are the same unnecessary steps dragging every process out?
  
  

Matt Heinz (19:01.996)
If someone’s just on their laptop the whole meeting, they probably don’t need to be there. Let’s call that out. Use RACI to clarify who really needs to attend.

Imagine a culture where you say: If you don’t have something to say in this meeting, you’re not expected to show up. That’s what we’ve created with our 90-minute leadership meeting. Some weeks we’re done in 38 minutes because we follow the format and only include those who are essential. The rest can just read the AI-powered notes later.

Kerry Curran (21:10.05)
So smart. For those listening, where can they learn more?

Matt Heinz (21:24.046)
HeinzMarketing.com—like the ketchup. Just search “marketing orchestration” or “collaboration drag” on our site. Tons of free content, including the audit. You can also email me directly at [email protected]. I do respond.

Kerry Curran (21:59.426)
And you’ve got a podcast too?

Matt Heinz (22:02.53)
Yes, Sales Pipeline Radio. We’ve been running it for 8 years. We talk about go-to-market strategies, sales, marketing, even the realities of entrepreneurship.

Kerry Curran (22:23.746)
And I met you through CMO Coffee Talk, which has been invaluable. Can you share a bit about it?

Matt Heinz (22:36.182)
Sure. It started as in-person breakfasts, moved online during the pandemic, and now has 3,500+ CMOs and heads of marketing. No pitching, no recordings. Just real, honest conversation every Friday morning. We cover everything—collaboration drag, imposter syndrome, sales alignment, even exit negotiations.

Kerry Curran (23:23.924)
Yes, the caliber and honesty of that group are incredible. Matt, thank you so much for joining me today—this was packed with value.

Matt Heinz (23:32.078)
Thank you, Kerry.

Matt Heinz (23:37.486)
Awesome. Thanks again.

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